Just to recap (and this applies in general to many laptops, not just Lenovo’s) the steps in the downgrade from Vista to XP are (a) find the XP drivers for your hardware (in this example the Lenovo X200) and download them (b) go into the BIOS and switch your HDD to ‘compatibility mode’ and (c) boot up with the XP install disk. After that fine tune as needed. But that’s not all as (as in life) there are alternatives…. like a call to Lenovo support to get the optional XP install disk.
Or, if you really want to do the job yourself have a read of this variation on the theme…
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Lenovo Community
Well, to install Windows XP you will need a Windows XP cd of course.
Insert the Windows XP cd in your external optical drive. Set the boot order in the BIOS so that your external optical drive is boot up before your hard disk. Reboot and follow the instructions :smileyhappy:
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Lenovo Community
However, I got “Setup did not find any hard disk drives installed in your computer” msg and asked me to quit the setup.
Seems it couldn’t recongnize my harddisk
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Lenovo Community
Go into you Bios (by clicking on F1 while booting) and go to “Config” -> “Serial ATA (SATA)” and amend type to “Compatibilty” mode.
Afterwards press F10 to save and exit.
Now you should be able to install XP.
Once XP is installed, do not amend SATA type to original one, this would lead to a boot error.
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Lenovo Community
This solution works but however, I doubt it’s the best solution because basically you’re using old SATA drivers to run your Harddrive now. Here’s what I did. You’ll need another computer for this.
1. Get a Windows CD and copy the ISO to your PC.
2. Download nLite – Link
3. Download SATA Drivers – Link
4. Add Sata Drivers to your nLite Copy
5. Burn a Copy of this new Windows with Drivers.
6. You’re set! No more BSOD.
Notes: The SATA drivers will unzip themselves in a folder make sure you pick the right one (9M). Instruction on how to add drivers on nLite are pretty easy; add “Single Driver” (read their forums for more stuff you can do to your installation).
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Lenovo Community
Actually, since this is a montevina based machine, you need to start with a XP cd that is SP2 or higher. You do need to go into the BIOS and change the SATA mode to Compatibility. Once you have installed Windows XP, you need to download the IMSM driver from lenovo’s website. Once you have installed the IMSM package, go back into BIOS and change the SATA mode back to AHCI.
If you use an XP cd that is SP0 or SP1, you will blue screen on PCI.SYS. If you don’t change the SATA mode to compatibility, you will likely blue screen with a 07B error.
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Page 2 – Lenovo Community
This is the way to do this.
change the sata controllor to compability.
install xp sp3.
after installation install the Intel matrix storage manager from the driver page http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-70477.html
reboot and change the sata controllor to ahci again. The driver will be automatically installed.
install .net from the ms site.
install system update from the lenovo site.
run system update.
after this installation there are still some drivers missing.
wifi, bluetooth, modem, and two pci devices.
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-70477.html
but the tricky thing is the two pci devices.
for this one you need first to install this one
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-70313.html
and after reboot you install this one
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-70317.html
Now you can update xp with all the necessary updates. and you’re done.
there are still some missing tools like active protection but this you can download from the site too!
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Page 2 – Lenovo Community
i used nLlite with my own XP Pro disk and Lenovo drivers. With no prev experience with nLite, I found it very easy. Will do this from now on.
Windows XP Clean Install
Welcome to the Windows XP Clean Install/Downgrade Guide!
I’ve seen a lot of threads asking how they should do a clean install and what they should do when problems occur. So I’ve made this thorough guide so everyone can have a stable, clean, and complete installation of Windows XP without any 3rd party software. ThinkVantage applications are considered 3rd party software. This Clean Install Guide can also help with slow boot up times (mine went from 90 seconds to 30 seconds from the moment I press the power button to a usable desktop), BSOD’s (Blue-Screens-of-Death), a slow, unstable system, adware, spyware, viruses, and many more problems. The Guide can be used to install XP on any ThinkPad, e.g., T61(p), R61(i/e), X61(s), T60(p), etc.
The guide is somewhat tedious to follow due to its length. Please follow the guide carefully and make sure not to skip anything or else your computer will be incomplete. This guide can also be used as a downgrade from Vista to XP.
ThinkPad SuperGuide
Windows XP Clean Install
Method 1 (manual driver installation)
1. Backup data if necessary.
2. Use the Driver Matrices to download the following drivers/software and their respective readme’s to an external storage device:
Just to recap (and this applies in general to many laptops, not just Lenovo’s) the steps in the downgrade from Vista to XP are (a) find the XP drivers for your hardware (in this example the Lenovo X200) and download them (b) go into the BIOS and switch your HDD to ‘compatibility mode’ and (c) boot up with the XP install disk. After that fine tune as needed. But that’s not all as (as in life) there are alternatives…. like a call to Lenovo support to get the optional XP install disk.
Or, if you really want to do the job yourself have a read of this variation on the theme…
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Lenovo Community
Well, to install Windows XP you will need a Windows XP cd of course.
Insert the Windows XP cd in your external optical drive. Set the boot order in the BIOS so that your external optical drive is boot up before your hard disk. Reboot and follow the instructions :smileyhappy:
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Lenovo Community
However, I got “Setup did not find any hard disk drives installed in your computer” msg and asked me to quit the setup.
Seems it couldn’t recongnize my harddisk
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Lenovo Community
Go into you Bios (by clicking on F1 while booting) and go to “Config” -> “Serial ATA (SATA)” and amend type to “Compatibilty” mode.
Afterwards press F10 to save and exit.
Now you should be able to install XP.
Once XP is installed, do not amend SATA type to original one, this would lead to a boot error.
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Lenovo Community
This solution works but however, I doubt it’s the best solution because basically you’re using old SATA drivers to run your Harddrive now. Here’s what I did. You’ll need another computer for this.
1. Get a Windows CD and copy the ISO to your PC.
2. Download nLite – Link
3. Download SATA Drivers – Link
4. Add Sata Drivers to your nLite Copy
5. Burn a Copy of this new Windows with Drivers.
6. You’re set! No more BSOD.
Notes: The SATA drivers will unzip themselves in a folder make sure you pick the right one (9M). Instruction on how to add drivers on nLite are pretty easy; add “Single Driver” (read their forums for more stuff you can do to your installation).
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Lenovo Community
Actually, since this is a montevina based machine, you need to start with a XP cd that is SP2 or higher. You do need to go into the BIOS and change the SATA mode to Compatibility. Once you have installed Windows XP, you need to download the IMSM driver from lenovo’s website. Once you have installed the IMSM package, go back into BIOS and change the SATA mode back to AHCI.
If you use an XP cd that is SP0 or SP1, you will blue screen on PCI.SYS. If you don’t change the SATA mode to compatibility, you will likely blue screen with a 07B error.
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Page 2 – Lenovo Community
This is the way to do this.
change the sata controllor to compability.
install xp sp3.
after installation install the Intel matrix storage manager from the driver page http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-70477.html
reboot and change the sata controllor to ahci again. The driver will be automatically installed.
install .net from the ms site.
install system update from the lenovo site.
run system update.
after this installation there are still some drivers missing.
wifi, bluetooth, modem, and two pci devices.
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-70477.html
but the tricky thing is the two pci devices.
for this one you need first to install this one
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-70313.html
and after reboot you install this one
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-70317.html
Now you can update xp with all the necessary updates. and you’re done.
there are still some missing tools like active protection but this you can download from the site too!
X200 remove Vista and install XP – Page 2 – Lenovo Community
i used nLlite with my own XP Pro disk and Lenovo drivers. With no prev experience with nLite, I found it very easy. Will do this from now on.
Windows XP Clean Install
Welcome to the Windows XP Clean Install/Downgrade Guide!
I’ve seen a lot of threads asking how they should do a clean install and what they should do when problems occur. So I’ve made this thorough guide so everyone can have a stable, clean, and complete installation of Windows XP without any 3rd party software. ThinkVantage applications are considered 3rd party software. This Clean Install Guide can also help with slow boot up times (mine went from 90 seconds to 30 seconds from the moment I press the power button to a usable desktop), BSOD’s (Blue-Screens-of-Death), a slow, unstable system, adware, spyware, viruses, and many more problems. The Guide can be used to install XP on any ThinkPad, e.g., T61(p), R61(i/e), X61(s), T60(p), etc.
The guide is somewhat tedious to follow due to its length. Please follow the guide carefully and make sure not to skip anything or else your computer will be incomplete. This guide can also be used as a downgrade from Vista to XP.
ThinkPad SuperGuide
Windows XP Clean Install
Method 1 (manual driver installation)
1. Backup data if necessary.
2. Use the Driver Matrices to download the following drivers/software and their respective readme’s to an external storage device:
Is it possible – or desirable – to uninstall Vista and install XP instead on the Lenovo X200? Well let’s find out.
First up we’ll need to dig up the specific XP drivers and download them in advance… and then do a web search to locate any helpful advice (preferably from people who have already done this)…. and interestingly Lenovo offered this downgrade as an option for new buyers, so there are genuine Lenovo disks around that will do this job. (That sounds the easiest way.)
As you’ll read below downloading and installing the drivers in the correct order is your typical time-consuming trial-and-error hair-pulling business, and happily Lenovo appears to offer both a free tool to semi-automate the process (ThinkVantage System Update) and a fully-automated disk at presumably some (hopefully small) price. Read on for all of the fun….
Lenovo Support & downloads – Drivers and software – ThinkPad X200, X200s, X200 Tablet
Download the most common drivers and software
Click the category below to quickly jump to the driver you need, then click the driver’s version number for more information on how to obtain the file.
Lenovo ThinkPad X200 XP Drivers | Laptop Drivers Download
Lenovo ThinkPad X200 XP Drivers
Lenovo Support & downloads – ThinkPad X200 support
Downloads and drivers
Product support
Product: ThinkPad X200 [change]
Operating system: Windows XP [change]
Lenovo Support & downloads – Drivers and software – ThinkPad X200, X200s, X200 Tablet
Download the most common drivers and software
Click the category below to quickly jump to the driver you need, then click the driver’s version number for more information on how to obtain the file.
BIOS
Intel AMT
Audio
Communications – Bluetooth
Communications – Modem
Diagnostics
Hard drive
Mouse/TrackPoint
Multimedia
Networking – Ethernet
Networking – Wireless
Networking – Wireless WAN
Optical drive
Power management
Software
System utilities
ThinkVantage Technologies
Video
Windows install supplements
Notes:
* View all files for the ThinkPad X200, X200s and X200 Tablet systems.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
You will need to order a system with Vista Business or Ultimate to qualify for the XP downgrade. The system will be preloaded with Vista and shipped with XP downgrade discs.
1. Yes, you will be able to switch between XP and Vista any time you want. Make sure you create the Vista recovery discs first before loading XP.
2. The XP recovery discs will recreate the Lenovo preload image with the drivers and ThinkVantage applications integrated.
3. Yes, you will need an optical drive to load the XP recovery discs and to create the Vista recovery discs. A generic external optical drive will work just as well as the Media Slice.
3. Lenovo’s page on downgrading to XP should cover the important steps in your downgrade process.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
I just did this with an X300. As above poster says, it comes with Vista installed and you have to get a separate CD with the XP downgrade. This is not an instll disk, rather replaces Vista on the hidden service partition and then you install from this. So any subsequent restore of the OS using Lenovo Rescue and Recovery will restore XP. To go back to Vista, you need to use a Vista CD, made with the Lenovo utility before you do the XP downgrade, to put Vista back into the hidden service partition and then do an install.
After the XP install, most drivers for my X300 worked fine, but not the WAN wireless. This was downloadable from the Lenovo website and worked fine.
I did run the machine with Vista for a while prior to making the decision to downgrade. Only one thing worked better in Vista than in XP and that was the WAN integration – Vista handles this natively, with XP one has to use either Access Connections or the software from the service provider.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
I’m trying to downgrade an X200 using my customer’s XP (upgrade) installation CD (w/ valid PID), and the setup is failing after all the drivers have been loaded and Windows Setup is started, with a BSOD of a “07″ error (I can give the specific BSOD error number later, but it refers to New Hardware, Viruses, hard drive erros, and suggests running “chkdsk /f”.
The drive is malware and error free.
Hiren’s (v. 10) boots to the “Mini XP” just fine, so the optical drive is working. Setup also fails in the same way when I attempt to install with an XP OEM disk (not an “upgrade” version).
At this point, my current theory is that the X200 (Thinkpad) is so hardware-specific and picky, that only the factory installation disk for XP will work, and that any attempt at installing XP from a standard Installation CD will fail. I hope I’m wrong, and am hoping someone can tell me that they’ve been able to successfully install a Vista-to-XP downgrade using a standard XP Installation disk, and how they were able to do it.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
The easy workaround is to go into BIOS and change SATA mode from AHCI to compatibility. That will at least get XP to boot. You can then install the Intel Matrix Storage Drivers and switch back to AHCI.
Lenovo’s XP preload/recovery image already have the SATA AHCI drivers already integrated so you don’t have to mess around with it. Windows Vista and 7 already has the necessary driver built-in.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
Thanks to the both of you, you were exactly right. “Needing the Drivers” was something that I suspected, but I thought that the only way to get them was off the Lenovo Factory Restore Disk. But the next post mentioned
“AHCI” which is something that I have seen/recognized in various BIOS’s, but never have had to deal with.
Turns out, that was the problem and the solution. I went to BIOS, flipped the switch from “AHCI” to “Compatibility” and instantly on the next reboot the Windows XP Professional (Upgrade) Installation Disk was working just fine, with no BSOD.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
The Next Step: Installing ALL the X200′s Drivers
I’m going to post this for posterity, on the chance it helps someone else.
I just spend almost 4 hours getting the last 5 drivers installed. First thing, you’ll do well to have a USB NIC to use to connect to the internet, until you can download and install the wireless network drivers.
I’ll try to keep the rest in as sequential an order as I can remember. It’s 3:35 a.m., please keep that in mind…
1) I installed SP3 Standalone, a copy of which I keep on my USB thumbdrive. Good move. Dramatically reduces the number of updates you need to wade through at Windows Update.
2) Same-same for IE8. Also good to do this before going to Windows Update, but after the wireless interent (or wired, I suppose) is up and running, so that you can update IE8, and not have IE6 and all it’s updates, IE7, etc… cluttering up the Update window.
3) At Lenovo’s Driver download page. Someone somewhere mentioned something about installing some kind of automatic software to find, download and install all the drivers automatically. I read this after spending 3 hours trying to find them all one at a time. Unfortunately, the message I got from Lenovo when trying to run this tool was that it was only designed to be used with Windows 7. Might have been a glitch, and might work for someone else. Figured I’d mention it early so that if it does work, someone doesn’t waste time.
4) The Lenovo Drivers are REAL tricky. You’d like to think it’s just a matter of downloading them, saving them, launching then and the installation is automatic. No, no, NO ! Don’t think that way. That thinking cost me 2 hours or more. After running the installation/set-up/whatever file, you then MUST read the “read me” text file on the Lenovo driver page, because many of the drivers have a different installation method. A few want to be run from a specific directory (usually where the set-up file dumps them), and one wants to be run from the Start > Run > cmd (command line). Many of the “set-up” files do not actually set-up and/or “install” anything (although some do), they just copy the data from where you launch the set-up to a “C:\drivers\win\…” directory. You have to go there to actually launch the REAL installation executable. Oh yeah, and at least one of the drivers needs to be installed by working backwards from Device Manager>Update Driver>Install from specific location and then aim the wizard at the driver directory that you find in the “read me” file.
MAIN POINT: Read ALL the “read me” files. It’s goofy stupid, tedious and time consuming, but the only alternative is to miss this point, and keep hunting for drivers when their installation files are buried on your hard drive already.
5) Oh yeah. Do the CHIPSET drivers. Duh. They solve I think 2 of the last oddball hardwares missing drivers. SM Bus Controller, I think. I should note here that ALL the drivers I needed came from the Lenovo Driver page. Other forum’s posts have people saying they can’t find them there, and they are going to other sites, and using drivers for other models of laptops, etc… Completely unnecessary; everything I needed was on the Lenovo site.
6) Install the Proset utility, but don’t install any of the software; it’s not needed. Just the driver is good enough. Windows Wireless Configuration can run the wireless just fine; you don’t need to different softwares installed, both trying to do the exact same thing. Plus, Proset is junk and WZC gives massages with happy endings.
7) Lessee, what else… Oh yeah, don’t forget to install the software for the tablet stylus pen. I downloaded software directly from Waccom (Google “x200 stylus”) and I think it’s different than the software you would (probably, I was in a hurry and was tired of looking at Lenovo) find at Lenovo. The Waccom software was quick, and seemed more functional than what I think I remember was on the Vista O/S. Not my computer so I can’t say for certain. The Wacomm software has a “calibrate” function if the stylus is 3/4″ from where the mouse is (mine was). “Calibrate” fixed that in about 30 seconds.
 Umm… Well I went crazy and used Easeus Partition Manager (used to be Magic, I think) and made an 11 Gbyte partition after all the installing, updating, drivering and fiddling was over. It’s on a 320 Gbyte drive, so there’s plenty of room. Then, I used XXClone to make a clone of the newly-installed Operating System with all the drivers and stuff, and all the TIME invested into it, so that if the O/S ever goes bad for whatever reason (infection, etc…) the clone can be used to re-create the newly-completed installation, so I won’t have to do all of that stuff all over again. Won’t help if the HD goes bad, but now that I’ve discovered HDD Regnerator v 1.71, HD’s don’t go bad for me anymore. (little hint, there….)
9) Activate your O/S before you clone it.
10) I like MyDefrag’s “Monthly” data compaction and reordering script. Knocks at least 5 seconds off the boot time, and on really fragmented machines it cuts the boot time in half.
11) Disable all the crap services, like “Help & Support”, “Error Reporting”, “Fast User Switching”, “Secondary Logon”, “NetBIOS / IP Helper”, “Remote Registry” and few others. Google “Black Viper” for a couple more. Switching Auto Connection Manager from Manual to Automatic will speed up the boot process by about 2 seconds, I think because it doesn’t have to “manually” decide it has a wireless card and think about whether or not to make a connection (equals delay).
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
ThinkVantage System Update is the name. You probably downloaded version 4, which is for Windows 7 only. XP and Vista users should use version 3.14. It finds, downloads and installs all the drivers that you need. It’s a great time saver.
WRT driver installation order, I always install the chipset driver first before the rest like display, network, etc. The chipset is the interconnect between CPU and all the devices, and the CPU needs to know how to access the interconnect before it can access the devices.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
If your XP were tablet edition, the stylus would be supported out of the box. XP Tablet Edition was one level above Pro, and available only through OEM channels. If you run XP Pro with tablet driver, you won’t have the Tablet Input Panel (TIP) and handwriting recognition. Nevertheless, the Wacom Penabled driver vastly improves on the built-in driver.
Lenovo Support & downloads – Downgrading from certain versions of Windows Vista and Windows 7 to Windows XP
Downgrading from certain versions of Windows Vista and Windows 7 to Windows XP
Lenovo Support & downloads – Downgrading from certain versions of Windows Vista and Windows 7 to Windows XP
Lenovo is providing Windows® XP Professional Recovery media and/or Windows Vista Recovery media as a way to downgrade from certain Windows Vista® or Windows® 7 operating systems running on Lenovo Think PCs.
Eligible operating systems include:
* Microsoft® Windows Vista® Business
* Microsoft® Windows Vista® Ultimate
* Microsoft® Windows® 7 Professional
* Microsoft® Windows® 7 Ultimate
Lenovo customers having a qualified operating system may purchase a Windows XP Recovery CD or Windows Vista Recovery CD by contacting their local Support Center.
Is it possible – or desirable – to uninstall Vista and install XP instead on the Lenovo X200? Well let’s find out.
First up we’ll need to dig up the specific XP drivers and download them in advance… and then do a web search to locate any helpful advice (preferably from people who have already done this)…. and interestingly Lenovo offered this downgrade as an option for new buyers, so there are genuine Lenovo disks around that will do this job. (That sounds the easiest way.)
As you’ll read below downloading and installing the drivers in the correct order is your typical time-consuming trial-and-error hair-pulling business, and happily Lenovo appears to offer both a free tool to semi-automate the process (ThinkVantage System Update) and a fully-automated disk at presumably some (hopefully small) price. Read on for all of the fun….
Lenovo Support & downloads – Drivers and software – ThinkPad X200, X200s, X200 Tablet
Download the most common drivers and software
Click the category below to quickly jump to the driver you need, then click the driver’s version number for more information on how to obtain the file.
Lenovo ThinkPad X200 XP Drivers | Laptop Drivers Download
Lenovo ThinkPad X200 XP Drivers
Lenovo Support & downloads – ThinkPad X200 support
Downloads and drivers
Product support
Product: ThinkPad X200 [change]
Operating system: Windows XP [change]
Lenovo Support & downloads – Drivers and software – ThinkPad X200, X200s, X200 Tablet
Download the most common drivers and software
Click the category below to quickly jump to the driver you need, then click the driver’s version number for more information on how to obtain the file.
BIOS
Intel AMT
Audio
Communications – Bluetooth
Communications – Modem
Diagnostics
Hard drive
Mouse/TrackPoint
Multimedia
Networking – Ethernet
Networking – Wireless
Networking – Wireless WAN
Optical drive
Power management
Software
System utilities
ThinkVantage Technologies
Video
Windows install supplements
Notes:
* View all files for the ThinkPad X200, X200s and X200 Tablet systems.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
You will need to order a system with Vista Business or Ultimate to qualify for the XP downgrade. The system will be preloaded with Vista and shipped with XP downgrade discs.
1. Yes, you will be able to switch between XP and Vista any time you want. Make sure you create the Vista recovery discs first before loading XP.
2. The XP recovery discs will recreate the Lenovo preload image with the drivers and ThinkVantage applications integrated.
3. Yes, you will need an optical drive to load the XP recovery discs and to create the Vista recovery discs. A generic external optical drive will work just as well as the Media Slice.
3. Lenovo’s page on downgrading to XP should cover the important steps in your downgrade process.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
I just did this with an X300. As above poster says, it comes with Vista installed and you have to get a separate CD with the XP downgrade. This is not an instll disk, rather replaces Vista on the hidden service partition and then you install from this. So any subsequent restore of the OS using Lenovo Rescue and Recovery will restore XP. To go back to Vista, you need to use a Vista CD, made with the Lenovo utility before you do the XP downgrade, to put Vista back into the hidden service partition and then do an install.
After the XP install, most drivers for my X300 worked fine, but not the WAN wireless. This was downloadable from the Lenovo website and worked fine.
I did run the machine with Vista for a while prior to making the decision to downgrade. Only one thing worked better in Vista than in XP and that was the WAN integration – Vista handles this natively, with XP one has to use either Access Connections or the software from the service provider.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
I’m trying to downgrade an X200 using my customer’s XP (upgrade) installation CD (w/ valid PID), and the setup is failing after all the drivers have been loaded and Windows Setup is started, with a BSOD of a “07″ error (I can give the specific BSOD error number later, but it refers to New Hardware, Viruses, hard drive erros, and suggests running “chkdsk /f”.
The drive is malware and error free.
Hiren’s (v. 10) boots to the “Mini XP” just fine, so the optical drive is working. Setup also fails in the same way when I attempt to install with an XP OEM disk (not an “upgrade” version).
At this point, my current theory is that the X200 (Thinkpad) is so hardware-specific and picky, that only the factory installation disk for XP will work, and that any attempt at installing XP from a standard Installation CD will fail. I hope I’m wrong, and am hoping someone can tell me that they’ve been able to successfully install a Vista-to-XP downgrade using a standard XP Installation disk, and how they were able to do it.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
The easy workaround is to go into BIOS and change SATA mode from AHCI to compatibility. That will at least get XP to boot. You can then install the Intel Matrix Storage Drivers and switch back to AHCI.
Lenovo’s XP preload/recovery image already have the SATA AHCI drivers already integrated so you don’t have to mess around with it. Windows Vista and 7 already has the necessary driver built-in.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
Thanks to the both of you, you were exactly right. “Needing the Drivers” was something that I suspected, but I thought that the only way to get them was off the Lenovo Factory Restore Disk. But the next post mentioned
“AHCI” which is something that I have seen/recognized in various BIOS’s, but never have had to deal with.
Turns out, that was the problem and the solution. I went to BIOS, flipped the switch from “AHCI” to “Compatibility” and instantly on the next reboot the Windows XP Professional (Upgrade) Installation Disk was working just fine, with no BSOD.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
The Next Step: Installing ALL the X200′s Drivers
I’m going to post this for posterity, on the chance it helps someone else.
I just spend almost 4 hours getting the last 5 drivers installed. First thing, you’ll do well to have a USB NIC to use to connect to the internet, until you can download and install the wireless network drivers.
I’ll try to keep the rest in as sequential an order as I can remember. It’s 3:35 a.m., please keep that in mind…
1) I installed SP3 Standalone, a copy of which I keep on my USB thumbdrive. Good move. Dramatically reduces the number of updates you need to wade through at Windows Update.
2) Same-same for IE8. Also good to do this before going to Windows Update, but after the wireless interent (or wired, I suppose) is up and running, so that you can update IE8, and not have IE6 and all it’s updates, IE7, etc… cluttering up the Update window.
3) At Lenovo’s Driver download page. Someone somewhere mentioned something about installing some kind of automatic software to find, download and install all the drivers automatically. I read this after spending 3 hours trying to find them all one at a time. Unfortunately, the message I got from Lenovo when trying to run this tool was that it was only designed to be used with Windows 7. Might have been a glitch, and might work for someone else. Figured I’d mention it early so that if it does work, someone doesn’t waste time.
4) The Lenovo Drivers are REAL tricky. You’d like to think it’s just a matter of downloading them, saving them, launching then and the installation is automatic. No, no, NO ! Don’t think that way. That thinking cost me 2 hours or more. After running the installation/set-up/whatever file, you then MUST read the “read me” text file on the Lenovo driver page, because many of the drivers have a different installation method. A few want to be run from a specific directory (usually where the set-up file dumps them), and one wants to be run from the Start > Run > cmd (command line). Many of the “set-up” files do not actually set-up and/or “install” anything (although some do), they just copy the data from where you launch the set-up to a “C:\drivers\win\…” directory. You have to go there to actually launch the REAL installation executable. Oh yeah, and at least one of the drivers needs to be installed by working backwards from Device Manager>Update Driver>Install from specific location and then aim the wizard at the driver directory that you find in the “read me” file.
MAIN POINT: Read ALL the “read me” files. It’s goofy stupid, tedious and time consuming, but the only alternative is to miss this point, and keep hunting for drivers when their installation files are buried on your hard drive already.
5) Oh yeah. Do the CHIPSET drivers. Duh. They solve I think 2 of the last oddball hardwares missing drivers. SM Bus Controller, I think. I should note here that ALL the drivers I needed came from the Lenovo Driver page. Other forum’s posts have people saying they can’t find them there, and they are going to other sites, and using drivers for other models of laptops, etc… Completely unnecessary; everything I needed was on the Lenovo site.
6) Install the Proset utility, but don’t install any of the software; it’s not needed. Just the driver is good enough. Windows Wireless Configuration can run the wireless just fine; you don’t need to different softwares installed, both trying to do the exact same thing. Plus, Proset is junk and WZC gives massages with happy endings.
7) Lessee, what else… Oh yeah, don’t forget to install the software for the tablet stylus pen. I downloaded software directly from Waccom (Google “x200 stylus”) and I think it’s different than the software you would (probably, I was in a hurry and was tired of looking at Lenovo) find at Lenovo. The Waccom software was quick, and seemed more functional than what I think I remember was on the Vista O/S. Not my computer so I can’t say for certain. The Wacomm software has a “calibrate” function if the stylus is 3/4″ from where the mouse is (mine was). “Calibrate” fixed that in about 30 seconds.
Umm… Well I went crazy and used Easeus Partition Manager (used to be Magic, I think) and made an 11 Gbyte partition after all the installing, updating, drivering and fiddling was over. It’s on a 320 Gbyte drive, so there’s plenty of room. Then, I used XXClone to make a clone of the newly-installed Operating System with all the drivers and stuff, and all the TIME invested into it, so that if the O/S ever goes bad for whatever reason (infection, etc…) the clone can be used to re-create the newly-completed installation, so I won’t have to do all of that stuff all over again. Won’t help if the HD goes bad, but now that I’ve discovered HDD Regnerator v 1.71, HD’s don’t go bad for me anymore. (little hint, there….)
9) Activate your O/S before you clone it.
10) I like MyDefrag’s “Monthly” data compaction and reordering script. Knocks at least 5 seconds off the boot time, and on really fragmented machines it cuts the boot time in half.
11) Disable all the crap services, like “Help & Support”, “Error Reporting”, “Fast User Switching”, “Secondary Logon”, “NetBIOS / IP Helper”, “Remote Registry” and few others. Google “Black Viper” for a couple more. Switching Auto Connection Manager from Manual to Automatic will speed up the boot process by about 2 seconds, I think because it doesn’t have to “manually” decide it has a wireless card and think about whether or not to make a connection (equals delay).
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
ThinkVantage System Update is the name. You probably downloaded version 4, which is for Windows 7 only. XP and Vista users should use version 3.14. It finds, downloads and installs all the drivers that you need. It’s a great time saver.
WRT driver installation order, I always install the chipset driver first before the rest like display, network, etc. The chipset is the interconnect between CPU and all the devices, and the CPU needs to know how to access the interconnect before it can access the devices.
Vista > XP Downgrade for Lenovo X200 – FlyerTalk Forums
If your XP were tablet edition, the stylus would be supported out of the box. XP Tablet Edition was one level above Pro, and available only through OEM channels. If you run XP Pro with tablet driver, you won’t have the Tablet Input Panel (TIP) and handwriting recognition. Nevertheless, the Wacom Penabled driver vastly improves on the built-in driver.
Lenovo Support & downloads – Downgrading from certain versions of Windows Vista and Windows 7 to Windows XP
Downgrading from certain versions of Windows Vista and Windows 7 to Windows XP
Lenovo Support & downloads – Downgrading from certain versions of Windows Vista and Windows 7 to Windows XP
Lenovo is providing Windows® XP Professional Recovery media and/or Windows Vista Recovery media as a way to downgrade from certain Windows Vista® or Windows® 7 operating systems running on Lenovo Think PCs.
Eligible operating systems include:
* Microsoft® Windows Vista® Business
* Microsoft® Windows Vista® Ultimate
* Microsoft® Windows® 7 Professional
* Microsoft® Windows® 7 Ultimate
Lenovo customers having a qualified operating system may purchase a Windows XP Recovery CD or Windows Vista Recovery CD by contacting their local Support Center.
I have no problem with mandatory professional driving lessons – I think I only had 1 or 2 ‘lessons’ with my father in any case, the rest were with a driving school. (And interestingly my driving instructor was a private pilot – and he coincidentally knew my flying instructor… which was a bit spooky.) But it wasn’t just the lessons that set me up for a fairly safe start on the roads.
Luckily my dad was generally a safe, law-abiding and careful driver, so I picked up fairly good habits just by watching. I’ve already hinted that there’s more to it than just that. My first “love” was flying – and learning to fly before learning to drive taught me – if nothing else – how important safety concerns are. Sure, it also teaches you how to have fun, but within a safe context. You don’t take un-calculated risks in an aircraft. (Having said that my driving instructor managed to roll a VW Beetle on Bankstown Airport’s then-gravel perimeter road, so he was “human” as well.)
But that’s not all, because another thing I got from my dad was a bike. So before I had done anything in a car I had learnt the basic road rules, fixed something mechanical (bikes force you to understand something about machines, even if it’s just how to fix a flat) and picked up the nuances of navigation.
So even if professional driver training was mandated I wonder how effective it would be, especially if some of these other factors were left out? You could ditch the flying training, sure, but what about bike riding? And what if professional training was set against 16 or more years of poor behaviour modelling? If your parents have a bad driving attitude then you may well not “unlearn” that easily. Whilst you may well get good training it means nothing if it’s forgotten the day after you pass the test. I wonder what the retention rate is for professional driver training?
But wait, there’s more. Although I rushed out and started flying training (never finished, by the way!) at 16, I didn’t get a driving licence for another 3 years. So I was not only more road-experienced than most people – being an active cyclist – I was also more mature and a bit more cashed up. Which meant I could afford a small but reliable and “safer” car – a VW Golf. But wait, there’s more. After getting my licence I sat on it and didn’t drive for almost a year. Then I got the car and finally started practicing my driving – it was almost a ‘cooling off period’. But that was both good and bad. I should have kept practicing some of the car-only skills required, so that was a negative – but I was also a fair bit older again before finally getting behind the wheel. That maturity made a big difference, I think.
So to summarise, maturity + safer car + professional training + good positive behaviour modelling + prior on-road experience (ie cycling) = someone with a better than average chance of remaining “safer” on the roads. I followed that up with a defensive driving course as well and joined a car club to boot (so I worked out my driving “angst” on a closed racetrack, not just the road). Whilst I’m not average – no-one is – I feel that somewhere in that mix are some key learning elements that may be missing from the background of many current drivers.
So bravo Mark Skaife but hey let’s have mandatory bike riding as well!
Skaife urges ban on parents teaching | Review | carsguide.com.au
“With the best intention in the world, too many parents pass on their own bad habits. We have to avoid that, which is why I believe we need to move to professional driver trainers in Australia,” Skaife said yesterday. “We don’t like hearing the truth on some things, and this is one of them. Proper education on driving is a big part of the road safety puzzle.
I have no problem with mandatory professional driving lessons – I think I only had 1 or 2 ‘lessons’ with my father in any case, the rest were with a driving school. (And interestingly my driving instructor was a private pilot – and he coincidentally knew my flying instructor… which was a bit spooky.) But it wasn’t just the lessons that set me up for a fairly safe start on the roads.
Luckily my dad was generally a safe, law-abiding and careful driver, so I picked up fairly good habits just by watching. I’ve already hinted that there’s more to it than just that. My first “love” was flying – and learning to fly before learning to drive taught me – if nothing else – how important safety concerns are. Sure, it also teaches you how to have fun, but within a safe context. You don’t take un-calculated risks in an aircraft. (Having said that my driving instructor managed to roll a VW Beetle on Bankstown Airport’s then-gravel perimeter road, so he was “human” as well.)
But that’s not all, because another thing I got from my dad was a bike. So before I had done anything in a car I had learnt the basic road rules, fixed something mechanical (bikes force you to understand something about machines, even if it’s just how to fix a flat) and picked up the nuances of navigation.
So even if professional driver training was mandated I wonder how effective it would be, especially if some of these other factors were left out? You could ditch the flying training, sure, but what about bike riding? And what if professional training was set against 16 or more years of poor behaviour modelling? If your parents have a bad driving attitude then you may well not “unlearn” that easily. Whilst you may well get good training it means nothing if it’s forgotten the day after you pass the test. I wonder what the retention rate is for professional driver training?
But wait, there’s more. Although I rushed out and started flying training (never finished, by the way!) at 16, I didn’t get a driving licence for another 3 years. So I was not only more road-experienced than most people – being an active cyclist – I was also more mature and a bit more cashed up. Which meant I could afford a small but reliable and “safer” car – a VW Golf. But wait, there’s more. After getting my licence I sat on it and didn’t drive for almost a year. Then I got the car and finally started practicing my driving – it was almost a ‘cooling off period’. But that was both good and bad. I should have kept practicing some of the car-only skills required, so that was a negative – but I was also a fair bit older again before finally getting behind the wheel. That maturity made a big difference, I think.
So to summarise, maturity + safer car + professional training + good positive behaviour modelling + prior on-road experience (ie cycling) = someone with a better than average chance of remaining “safer” on the roads. I followed that up with a defensive driving course as well and joined a car club to boot (so I worked out my driving “angst” on a closed racetrack, not just the road). Whilst I’m not average – no-one is – I feel that somewhere in that mix are some key learning elements that may be missing from the background of many current drivers.
So bravo Mark Skaife but hey let’s have mandatory bike riding as well!
Skaife urges ban on parents teaching | Review | carsguide.com.au
“With the best intention in the world, too many parents pass on their own bad habits. We have to avoid that, which is why I believe we need to move to professional driver trainers in Australia,” Skaife said yesterday. “We don’t like hearing the truth on some things, and this is one of them. Proper education on driving is a big part of the road safety puzzle.
The “robo-car” concept – where the car takes control and interacts with and responds to the road environment automatically – has much to offer. Better traffic flow, safer driving and improved fuel consumption for starters. The downside is loss of human control, but we already effectively given that up when we get on a plane, a bus or a train. We may believe to a greater or lesser extent that a human has ultimate “control” but the point is that with public transport we opt out of direct “hands-on” involvement – we just take a seat and get off when we want.
So a robo-car is simply a smaller, nimbler and more personalised form of the larger concept of public transport. And the core technologies are already there: cruise control, collision avoidance and GPS for starters. If we added RFIDs and a car-based WiFi network into the equation we’d effectively have an Internet of cars where the cars become “packets” and we simply get inside and add an address. The routing would happen automagically and if problems appeared we’d be rerouted via the best path.
OK, the car-mad who like that feeling of control – those for whom the mechanics of acceleration, braking and cornering are a practised skill, be they good at it or not – will have to find other outlets, but for the bulk of us it’s a compromise that’s probably going to happen. And in consequence it opens up a whole world of possibilities – greater efficiency, reduced road trauma, savings in hospital costs – you name it. We may end up with “trains” of cars on the freeway instead of a log jam.
Robocars – not that far away at all
I’m not sure we have perfect trust – or faith – in all of these devices and the software that will integrate them but I see a day when these and other perhaps more robust technologies (like embedded RFIDs in road furniture and signage) fall into place to regulate and control traffic flow. It may start with control in low-speed and low-risk environments and work from there and priority could be given to drivers who hand over to robo-control. So there would be a carrot – you get a smoother run as well as less angst behind the wheel.
The “robo-car” concept – where the car takes control and interacts with and responds to the road environment automatically – has much to offer. Better traffic flow, safer driving and improved fuel consumption for starters. The downside is loss of human control, but we already effectively given that up when we get on a plane, a bus or a train. We may believe to a greater or lesser extent that a human has ultimate “control” but the point is that with public transport we opt out of direct “hands-on” involvement – we just take a seat and get off when we want.
So a robo-car is simply a smaller, nimbler and more personalised form of the larger concept of public transport. And the core technologies are already there: cruise control, collision avoidance and GPS for starters. If we added RFIDs and a car-based WiFi network into the equation we’d effectively have an Internet of cars where the cars become “packets” and we simply get inside and add an address. The routing would happen automagically and if problems appeared we’d be rerouted via the best path.
OK, the car-mad who like that feeling of control – those for whom the mechanics of acceleration, braking and cornering are a practised skill, be they good at it or not – will have to find other outlets, but for the bulk of us it’s a compromise that’s probably going to happen. And in consequence it opens up a whole world of possibilities – greater efficiency, reduced road trauma, savings in hospital costs – you name it. We may end up with “trains” of cars on the freeway instead of a log jam.
Robocars – not that far away at all
I’m not sure we have perfect trust – or faith – in all of these devices and the software that will integrate them but I see a day when these and other perhaps more robust technologies (like embedded RFIDs in road furniture and signage) fall into place to regulate and control traffic flow. It may start with control in low-speed and low-risk environments and work from there and priority could be given to drivers who hand over to robo-control. So there would be a carrot – you get a smoother run as well as less angst behind the wheel.
Just something that piqued my interest….
Halliday puts 1960 Alfa Romeo Guilietta through its passes | Female Racing News | News about Women in Motorsports
Liz Halliday enjoyed a hectic few days featuring two very different types of horsepower last week as she made her return to the race circuit and continued her British 3 Day Eventing season.
The week began with the California-born dual sportswoman attending the Silverstone Classic media day where she had a first opportunity to put her father’s 1960 Alfa Romeo Giulietta SZ Coda Tronca through its paces.
The car, a rare ‘cropped tailed’ version and one of just 29 ever made, will be raced by Liz at the Monza Coppa Intereuropa and the Silverstone Classic this summer. It has been expertly prepared by race car specialist John Danby Racing and ran perfectly throughout the day as well as attracting plenty of media interest.
Just something that piqued my interest….
Halliday puts 1960 Alfa Romeo Guilietta through its passes | Female Racing News | News about Women in Motorsports
Liz Halliday enjoyed a hectic few days featuring two very different types of horsepower last week as she made her return to the race circuit and continued her British 3 Day Eventing season.
The week began with the California-born dual sportswoman attending the Silverstone Classic media day where she had a first opportunity to put her father’s 1960 Alfa Romeo Giulietta SZ Coda Tronca through its paces.
The car, a rare ‘cropped tailed’ version and one of just 29 ever made, will be raced by Liz at the Monza Coppa Intereuropa and the Silverstone Classic this summer. It has been expertly prepared by race car specialist John Danby Racing and ran perfectly throughout the day as well as attracting plenty of media interest.
I wrote this 4 years ago, and nothing’s really changed. So I’ve reposted and updated…
And I’m not saying that I don’t like driving cars – or automobiles, if you prefer – but I do think we’ve gone a bit too far in our worship of a machine. I do like cars, as I like bicycles – they get me around. But walking is option 1.
Let me explain. We were evolved to walk and run over quite extensive distances – say 30-50km a day. That worked quite well for us as a species and our metabolism is predicated upon this regular daily ‘hunting and gathering’ exercise and natural range of travel. After a million years or so (give or take) we discovered that
we could ride horses and thus both further our range and our load-bearing capacity whilst covering more ground in one day. We also mastered the sea to an extent and invented the wheel – which helped with load carrying in particular. It all sounds good.
Indeed in the last 3-6,000 thousand years we have increasingly ditched our own locomotive powers in favour of leveraging other methods. In the last 100-150 years or so – a really short period of time – we have added bicycles, trains, planes and cars to this heady mix of ‘augmented transport modes’. Only the bicycle relies upon our own energy reserves so I’ll set that one aside for a moment (as a ‘good thing’) and focus on the others – but in particular upon the car.
Thanks to the car we now have an enormous personal range – say 1,000km a day – plus massive load bearing potential (let’s say about 700kg per car, allowing for towing as well as internal loads). This is granted to us as a gift by the automobile and allows us ‘personal freedom’. We can choose to work far from our home, to travel to distant shops and carry heavy objects back and to transport people (such as our kids) to resources that were an unreasonable distance away just 50 years ago. This enhanced personal mobility has grown up over the last 100 years but really kicked in after World War II – at least in the ‘developed’ world. It has grown exponentially until cars have almost become mandatory items – we are so reliant upon them that we feel deprived and our liberty eroded when we don’t have access to one (or more).
Our local economies have subsequently adapted to suit this freedom – thus our shops, jobs, factories and offices and sports facilities have evolved to take economic advantage of our ability to jump in the car and go places. Obvious enough, I know. It should be all good, you’d think.
Now, we can indeed label personal freedom as a good thing, and therefore extend that warm fuzzy feeling to cars as well, or we can analyse the effect more deeply. Let’s do just that. We can all see how the rising price of fuel will impact this ‘freedom’. Setting aside the carbon released by burning fossil fuels and any other pollution or waste material, and consequent effects like global warming, what else has happened in our societies because of the proliferation of the car?
Let’s list a few of these negative effects.
- People die or are injured in road accidents, often young people. Every single day.
- People drive rather than walk, so obesity and diabetes are up.
- Health costs are thus up.
- With fewer people walking we don’t get the daily neighbourly contact we had 50-100 years ago. Thus we have become less attached to our communities.
- People see empty streets as a threat, so they (a) worry more and (b) drive instead of walk. “Only” the car-deprived walk, or so it seems, so the streets are unnaturally populated by just kids and the elderly, plus the disadvantaged and the health-conscious.
- With so few people walking the streets and so many cars on the roads we now worry about that as well – are our kids safe out there? So we keep ‘em in to watch TV or drive them to and fro.
- Vast areas of land are taken up as roads and car parks and we lose the value (opportunity cost) of that land for farming or housing or parks.
- The sheer cost of road building is huge and is absorbed by the general community, not by the auto-makers (or the road-users alone, either).
- Cars are faster and more dangerous than pedestrians or bicyclists so they discourage both groups from sharing the roads (again to the detriment of our overall health).
- The community pays to slow the cars down by signage and enforcement and ‘traffic calming’.
- The car-less are disadvantaged when seeking jobs (often because public transport has been run down).
- Communities are severed by traffic-clogged roads (who enjoys crossing a 6 lane road to get to the shops?) Again we end up driving, if we can.
- Small local shops have been replaced by large scale commodity shopping centres (which may or may not be a good thing), increasing our reliance upon – yes, you guessed it – the car.
- So when we have no car, or when petrol is expensive – we have a problem getting to community resources.
That’s just for starters. My point is that ‘personal freedom’ when dressed up as a product sold by car makers has a downside that just isn’t being recognised and discussed. Perhaps rising fuel costs will wake us up. I hope so. I’m wondering how many ills of our society – the increased rates of mental illness and soaring obesity and diabetes rates – can be directly attributed to our personal freedom to jump in a car and avoid taking advantage of our innate human resources (like legs!). Is our laziness actually hurting us? Should we start billing this cost back to the car makers? Worth thinking about!
Gotta go – must jump in the car and drive to the shops!
I wrote this 4 years ago, and nothing’s really changed. So I’ve reposted and updated…
And I’m not saying that I don’t like driving cars – or automobiles, if you prefer – but I do think we’ve gone a bit too far in our worship of a machine. I do like cars, as I like bicycles – they get me around. But walking is option 1.
Let me explain. We were evolved to walk and run over quite extensive distances – say 30-50km a day. That worked quite well for us as a species and our metabolism is predicated upon this regular daily ‘hunting and gathering’ exercise and natural range of travel. After a million years or so (give or take) we discovered that
we could ride horses and thus both further our range and our load-bearing capacity whilst covering more ground in one day. We also mastered the sea to an extent and invented the wheel – which helped with load carrying in particular. It all sounds good.
Indeed in the last 3-6,000 thousand years we have increasingly ditched our own locomotive powers in favour of leveraging other methods. In the last 100-150 years or so – a really short period of time – we have added bicycles, trains, planes and cars to this heady mix of ‘augmented transport modes’. Only the bicycle relies upon our own energy reserves so I’ll set that one aside for a moment (as a ‘good thing’) and focus on the others – but in particular upon the car.
Thanks to the car we now have an enormous personal range – say 1,000km a day – plus massive load bearing potential (let’s say about 700kg per car, allowing for towing as well as internal loads). This is granted to us as a gift by the automobile and allows us ‘personal freedom’. We can choose to work far from our home, to travel to distant shops and carry heavy objects back and to transport people (such as our kids) to resources that were an unreasonable distance away just 50 years ago. This enhanced personal mobility has grown up over the last 100 years but really kicked in after World War II – at least in the ‘developed’ world. It has grown exponentially until cars have almost become mandatory items – we are so reliant upon them that we feel deprived and our liberty eroded when we don’t have access to one (or more).
Our local economies have subsequently adapted to suit this freedom – thus our shops, jobs, factories and offices and sports facilities have evolved to take economic advantage of our ability to jump in the car and go places. Obvious enough, I know. It should be all good, you’d think.
Now, we can indeed label personal freedom as a good thing, and therefore extend that warm fuzzy feeling to cars as well, or we can analyse the effect more deeply. Let’s do just that. We can all see how the rising price of fuel will impact this ‘freedom’. Setting aside the carbon released by burning fossil fuels and any other pollution or waste material, and consequent effects like global warming, what else has happened in our societies because of the proliferation of the car?
Let’s list a few of these negative effects.
- People die or are injured in road accidents, often young people. Every single day.
- People drive rather than walk, so obesity and diabetes are up.
- Health costs are thus up.
- With fewer people walking we don’t get the daily neighbourly contact we had 50-100 years ago. Thus we have become less attached to our communities.
- People see empty streets as a threat, so they (a) worry more and (b) drive instead of walk. “Only” the car-deprived walk, or so it seems, so the streets are unnaturally populated by just kids and the elderly, plus the disadvantaged and the health-conscious.
- With so few people walking the streets and so many cars on the roads we now worry about that as well – are our kids safe out there? So we keep ‘em in to watch TV or drive them to and fro.
- Vast areas of land are taken up as roads and car parks and we lose the value (opportunity cost) of that land for farming or housing or parks.
- The sheer cost of road building is huge and is absorbed by the general community, not by the auto-makers (or the road-users alone, either).
- Cars are faster and more dangerous than pedestrians or bicyclists so they discourage both groups from sharing the roads (again to the detriment of our overall health).
- The community pays to slow the cars down by signage and enforcement and ‘traffic calming’.
- The car-less are disadvantaged when seeking jobs (often because public transport has been run down).
- Communities are severed by traffic-clogged roads (who enjoys crossing a 6 lane road to get to the shops?) Again we end up driving, if we can.
- Small local shops have been replaced by large scale commodity shopping centres (which may or may not be a good thing), increasing our reliance upon – yes, you guessed it – the car.
- So when we have no car, or when petrol is expensive – we have a problem getting to community resources.
That’s just for starters. My point is that ‘personal freedom’ when dressed up as a product sold by car makers has a downside that just isn’t being recognised and discussed. Perhaps rising fuel costs will wake us up. I hope so. I’m wondering how many ills of our society – the increased rates of mental illness and soaring obesity and diabetes rates – can be directly attributed to our personal freedom to jump in a car and avoid taking advantage of our innate human resources (like legs!). Is our laziness actually hurting us? Should we start billing this cost back to the car makers? Worth thinking about!
Gotta go – must jump in the car and drive to the shops!
I’m in my time machine looking at what I thought and wrote in 2006….
I used to believe this too. But now I’m asking “prove it”. Peter Barnwell at Carsguide suggests that “a car like this,” meaning a Renault Clio Cup – an overpowered pocket rocket or hot hatch – “is inherently safer than a mere hatchback econobox due to its dexterity, responsiveness and high quality components such as the Michelin tyres and sophisticated electronic controls that include ABS and electronic stability program (ESP).” Inherently safer? And the evidence for this is?
OK, I would accept that the “sophisticated electronic controls that include ABS and electronic stability program” provide some extra margin for safety over no such aids, but why would we expect that “dexterity, responsiveness and high quality components such as the Michelin tyres” would make a measurable positive difference? Surely a car and its tyres either meet the road-worthiness standards or they don’t, irrespective of brand of tyre. A “better” brand of tyre may have a higher speed rating – but then again we are talking of a highly stressed high-output 2.0 litre motor in a small, relatively low-weight vehicle, so it needs a higher rated tyre. As for dexterity, what the hell is that? To make a car more nimble and responsive means to take away some built-in understeer and probably build in some oversteer. Why would this be safer for the average Joe or Josephine? Why would this so-called “responsiveness” be an aid?
All cars respond, so they are all responsive. I assume Peter is claiming a greater degree of responsiveness in steering, braking and acceleration. And the correlation with safety is…?
Again we must take a leap and assume that he reasons that the thing can steer out of trouble with greater ease: if you are watching and have the skill to avoid oversteer (ahhh, but the stability program cuts in, doesn’t it!). And again that it stops shorter: if you are watching and know how to brake hard (and turn to avoid). And the acceleration is great for those times when you must hit the throttle to get out trouble: like when, ummm, you are on the wrong side of the road overtaking? Maybe you just didn’t plan that overtaking manoeuvre very well in the first place?
Yes, I am being a bit harsh, but really – let’s be honest – we buy these cars (and I mean hot hatches or any car with an enhanced power to weight ratio) to go faster than an econobox. To accelerate harder. To take corners faster. To overtake those econoboxes more easily and more often. To take more risks. To enjoy the cut and thrust of driving. Unless we really drive the thing just like an econobox, and a well-driven one at that.
Logically (and you only have to look around you to see the evidence) we are choosing to reduce our safety margin with such a purchase, not increase it. Throwing in wider tyres, stiffer suspension and stability control simply helps the manufacturer match the performance increase (and the higher price) with necessary upgrades and make you feel as though you have something ‘better’ than standard. Which of course is true. And it’s more fun, I’m a fan of such cars myself.
But it’s not “inherently safer”. Let’s not kid ourselves!
I’m in my time machine looking at what I thought and wrote in 2006….
I used to believe this too. But now I’m asking “prove it”. Peter Barnwell at Carsguide suggests that “a car like this,” meaning a Renault Clio Cup – an overpowered pocket rocket or hot hatch – “is inherently safer than a mere hatchback econobox due to its dexterity, responsiveness and high quality components such as the Michelin tyres and sophisticated electronic controls that include ABS and electronic stability program (ESP).” Inherently safer? And the evidence for this is?
OK, I would accept that the “sophisticated electronic controls that include ABS and electronic stability program” provide some extra margin for safety over no such aids, but why would we expect that “dexterity, responsiveness and high quality components such as the Michelin tyres” would make a measurable positive difference? Surely a car and its tyres either meet the road-worthiness standards or they don’t, irrespective of brand of tyre. A “better” brand of tyre may have a higher speed rating – but then again we are talking of a highly stressed high-output 2.0 litre motor in a small, relatively low-weight vehicle, so it needs a higher rated tyre. As for dexterity, what the hell is that? To make a car more nimble and responsive means to take away some built-in understeer and probably build in some oversteer. Why would this be safer for the average Joe or Josephine? Why would this so-called “responsiveness” be an aid?
All cars respond, so they are all responsive. I assume Peter is claiming a greater degree of responsiveness in steering, braking and acceleration. And the correlation with safety is…?
Again we must take a leap and assume that he reasons that the thing can steer out of trouble with greater ease: if you are watching and have the skill to avoid oversteer (ahhh, but the stability program cuts in, doesn’t it!). And again that it stops shorter: if you are watching and know how to brake hard (and turn to avoid). And the acceleration is great for those times when you must hit the throttle to get out trouble: like when, ummm, you are on the wrong side of the road overtaking? Maybe you just didn’t plan that overtaking manoeuvre very well in the first place?
Yes, I am being a bit harsh, but really – let’s be honest – we buy these cars (and I mean hot hatches or any car with an enhanced power to weight ratio) to go faster than an econobox. To accelerate harder. To take corners faster. To overtake those econoboxes more easily and more often. To take more risks. To enjoy the cut and thrust of driving. Unless we really drive the thing just like an econobox, and a well-driven one at that.
Logically (and you only have to look around you to see the evidence) we are choosing to reduce our safety margin with such a purchase, not increase it. Throwing in wider tyres, stiffer suspension and stability control simply helps the manufacturer match the performance increase (and the higher price) with necessary upgrades and make you feel as though you have something ‘better’ than standard. Which of course is true. And it’s more fun, I’m a fan of such cars myself.
But it’s not “inherently safer”. Let’s not kid ourselves!
Another re-post from 2006, this time on speeding drivers…
OK, I sometimes exceed the posted speed limit. Don’t get me wrong, most times I am spot on or just below the limit – possibly 95% of the time or more. However sometimes by simple neglect, more often by intent, I go past the stated figure. But not by much – 10% at most. And only when I feel it’s utterly safe, if not safer than the posted limit – or the limit is so poorly posted (behind a tree, for example) that I simply miss it. So why is it that so many other cars are zooming past me, irrespective of road conditions or surrounding environment? Don’t they see the risks? Do they know something I don’t?
When I was a newbie driver I regularly pushed the limits. I thought it got me there quicker. However I did feel constant frustration with other drivers who did not share this urge to get there quicker. I also enjoyed the thrill of fast cornering and of the world flying past. I am mostly talking of 15-20km/h over the limit, sometimes waaay more (although it was actually legal to exceed 110kmh on de-restricted roads back then, too).
I soon recognised a few things. Firstly my time gains were often eroded by untimely fuel stops, roadworks or traffic signals. Too often that car or truck I just overtook is back in front again. At best I was gaining minutes – and not very many, even on a long trip.
I also could see that feeling frustrated if not downright angry was not a good feeling, especially when driving. Much of this came about because cars kept pulling out of cross streets or changing lanes right in front of me. What were they thinking? I saw them as being in the wrong, which technically they were, but I didn’t see that by being even just 10kmh over the stated limit I was increasing the risk of someone pulling out too late, and by a sizable margin. I was simply closing the gap too quickly for their orderly, planned traffic-merging. But I didn’t see it as my fault, did I?
Gradually – it took about a year of regular daily driving – I got the message. The real shock was when a dog ran out of a car yard on a highway, straight in front of 6 busy lanes of traffic. I didn’t hit the dog but someone else did. It brought things to a head, gave me pause to reflect as it were. If I slow down I can avoid trouble better. If I look around and ahead I can plan for a smooth run in traffic. If I anticipate what could happen I’ll have a nicer, smoother run. Importantly, I found that by sticking closer to the limit I’d reduce my risk of inadvertent lane-merging ‘incidents’ and run less risk at intersections.
So I slowed down. (Not so easy to do at 20 or 21, but there you go.) My frustrations eased, people stopped pulling crazy death-defying stunts at intersections (well a lot of ‘em did, anyway) and I had a lot more time to deal with the unexpected. I also gave myself more room between myself and the car in front. All in all it cost me very little in time and saved me fuel, wear and tear and angst. When the road was truly safe, as free of unnecessary risk as anyone could reasonably imagine I still gave (and give) the car a bit of a fang. I still have some fun, as it were. But it’s calculated.
So why are all of these people passing me? What are they thinking? If you habitually speed, do you do it in suburban streets lined with houses, kids and dogs? Or around blind suburban corners littered with driveways? Do you do it when there are intersections left and right? Do you find yourself swerving around from lane to lane, dodging slower cars? Do you tailgate these infuriatingly ‘slow’ drivers? Do you ever wonder why you get so aggro when you drive?
Or do you just speed and let everyone else do their level best to avoid your accident?
Filed under cars, drivers, driving by Rob.
Another re-post from 2006, this time on speeding drivers…
OK, I sometimes exceed the posted speed limit. Don’t get me wrong, most times I am spot on or just below the limit – possibly 95% of the time or more. However sometimes by simple neglect, more often by intent, I go past the stated figure. But not by much – 10% at most. And only when I feel it’s utterly safe, if not safer than the posted limit – or the limit is so poorly posted (behind a tree, for example) that I simply miss it. So why is it that so many other cars are zooming past me, irrespective of road conditions or surrounding environment? Don’t they see the risks? Do they know something I don’t?
When I was a newbie driver I regularly pushed the limits. I thought it got me there quicker. However I did feel constant frustration with other drivers who did not share this urge to get there quicker. I also enjoyed the thrill of fast cornering and of the world flying past. I am mostly talking of 15-20km/h over the limit, sometimes waaay more (although it was actually legal to exceed 110kmh on de-restricted roads back then, too).
I soon recognised a few things. Firstly my time gains were often eroded by untimely fuel stops, roadworks or traffic signals. Too often that car or truck I just overtook is back in front again. At best I was gaining minutes – and not very many, even on a long trip.
I also could see that feeling frustrated if not downright angry was not a good feeling, especially when driving. Much of this came about because cars kept pulling out of cross streets or changing lanes right in front of me. What were they thinking? I saw them as being in the wrong, which technically they were, but I didn’t see that by being even just 10kmh over the stated limit I was increasing the risk of someone pulling out too late, and by a sizable margin. I was simply closing the gap too quickly for their orderly, planned traffic-merging. But I didn’t see it as my fault, did I?
Gradually – it took about a year of regular daily driving – I got the message. The real shock was when a dog ran out of a car yard on a highway, straight in front of 6 busy lanes of traffic. I didn’t hit the dog but someone else did. It brought things to a head, gave me pause to reflect as it were. If I slow down I can avoid trouble better. If I look around and ahead I can plan for a smooth run in traffic. If I anticipate what could happen I’ll have a nicer, smoother run. Importantly, I found that by sticking closer to the limit I’d reduce my risk of inadvertent lane-merging ‘incidents’ and run less risk at intersections.
So I slowed down. (Not so easy to do at 20 or 21, but there you go.) My frustrations eased, people stopped pulling crazy death-defying stunts at intersections (well a lot of ‘em did, anyway) and I had a lot more time to deal with the unexpected. I also gave myself more room between myself and the car in front. All in all it cost me very little in time and saved me fuel, wear and tear and angst. When the road was truly safe, as free of unnecessary risk as anyone could reasonably imagine I still gave (and give) the car a bit of a fang. I still have some fun, as it were. But it’s calculated.
So why are all of these people passing me? What are they thinking? If you habitually speed, do you do it in suburban streets lined with houses, kids and dogs? Or around blind suburban corners littered with driveways? Do you do it when there are intersections left and right? Do you find yourself swerving around from lane to lane, dodging slower cars? Do you tailgate these infuriatingly ‘slow’ drivers? Do you ever wonder why you get so aggro when you drive?
Or do you just speed and let everyone else do their level best to avoid your accident?
Filed under cars, drivers, driving by Rob.
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