Not exactly Sydney but close enough and inextricably linked both now and in the past… there’s an excellent heritage walk on the Gosford Council website but it lacks a few current maps and images… so here are some excerpts with Google Maps and Streetview images added…. and remember to check out the GCC site for additional detail (including some marvellous old photos).
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
Gosford Park was dedicated on 15th January 1886. At that time the Park was a bare paddock. A rotunda for band recitals was added much later. This Park sat directly above Brisbane Water in the early days. The land immediately below the Park is all reclaimed from Brisbane Water. The practice ovals at the rear of the 1954 Gosford Public School were once all part of Brisbane Water. Georgiana Terrace marks the northernmost place Brisbane Water once reached. Around 1911, spoil from dredges was piled up on the water’s edge, to create “Waterside Park”. Later projects led to further reclamation and the building of Dane Drive. Vaughan Avenue was once named Wharf Street.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
This part of Mann Street was once comparatively busy, with a conveniently located pub and General Store waiting for travellers to and from Sydney, and a Post and Telegraph Office. Steamship travel was the fastest and most comfortable means of getting to Gosford prior to the coming of the railway in 1887. George Watt sold tickets for the Parramatta River Steam Company from his two-storey weatherboard building. Watt’s Gosford Emporium sold boots and shoes, ironmongery and crockery, groceries, drapery, meat safes and scrubbing boards amongst other things. With the railway station being built further north along Mann Street, during the 1880s, the businesses began to gravitate towards it.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
A casual look at the front of this building (which a late friend described as ” late 20th century brutalist!) would lead you might think that there was nothing historic about it at all. Walk to the northern end, and look east. You will see that the awful red brick front of the building hides a largely intact Victorian building. Along Mann Street there are some lovely old buildings hidden behind very unflattering 1950s & 60s facades.
The Post and Telegraph Office, and adjacent residence, were originally long and low single storey structures designed by James Barnet. In 1891 a second storey was added to the main Post Office. The building has had further alterations from 1908 to 1953, culminating in the building you see before you.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
looking west directly across the street is the site of the Old Gosford School of Arts. Built in 1888, the Gosford community was very proud of this building. It featured a library, reading room, large meeting room, Municipal Chambers and a hall capable of seating 250 people. Travelling theatrical companies, magicians, illusionists and a blind concert group gave concerts in the hall. Travelling picture showmen would bring their wares to the people before the establishment of permanent cinemas in town. In 1927 the School of Arts burnt down. The hall was rebuilt on the old foundations. On the northern side facing Georgiana Terrace can be seen remnants of the old painted signage for Council offices. It is now used as a teachers’ resource centre.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
The original Gosford watch-house was built in Donnison Street in 1827, near today’s Workcover building site. It was a three-roomed shingle-roofed slab timber structure that quickly became inadequate for its purpose. Around 1833 the first Gosford courthouse was added.
In 1849 the “new’ Gosford Court and Police Station was built in Mann Street. It cost 345 pounds, and consisted of a courthouse, clerk’s room, magistrate’s room, two cells, a constable’s room, and a yard. By the mid 1860s the building was in need of major repair. The northern end of the complex was extended in 1892. A brick charge room and offices were added in 1928 to the southern end. If you look closely you can see evidence of the various additions. From Georgiana Terrace you can see the original gaol cells. Over the front entrance you can still see the wrought-iron gas lamp holder. In the 1970s, police working in the old station were fed up with outdated facilities. Plans for the demolition of the building were halted, and a variety of historical and arts groups put their hands up to occupy the site. The new Gosford Police Centre was opened in June 1983. The new courthouse in Donnison Street opened in August 1987.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
Henry Helman designed the Brisbane Water County Council building that was completed in 1957. The town was very proud of the project, and it featured local sandstone fascia provided by Gosford Quarries, and many fittings and furnishings from local companies. The meeting rooms were wood panelled, and the mechanism for operating the clock tower was controlled from a bookcase shaped to reflect the design of the outer building and clock tower. The old County Council building was briefly the home of the Northern Eagles football team in the late 1990s. The Spurbest proposal for the site includes the retention of the County Council facade.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
The number and longevity of cafes in town reflect the passing trade in tourists and travellers who used to be directed through Gosford along the old Pacific Highway. PNA House stands on Jephson’s Corner. Horace Jephson was a tobacconist and hairdresser who built his store on the site in 1907. A later extension was added in 1913. Walter Buscombe was an early occupant of the site before Jephson. Fred Cohen had a drapery and grocery store next door in the early 1910s. Old photos show that these two buildings were rather lovely in their time.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
the Imperial Centre now stands on Sterland’s Corner.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
Shepherd’s Corner was where William Street meets Mann Street
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
Where the Commonwealth Bank stands today was known as Hill’s Corner. The corner was previously known as Campbell’s Corner, after the owner of shops in the 1910s. Campbell’s shops were destroyed by fire in November 1914. Campbell rebuilt on the site, and soon after sold to Hill. Hill’s Corner Chambers were notable as the first “modern” mix of shops, businesses and professional rooms, with three-way garage. Fire destroyed the building in November 1933.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
In 1937 a new and luxurious theatre, the Regal, was opened. It was designed in the Art Deco/Moderne style, and was as good as any city cinema of the period. The opening programme was the Janet Gaynor and Frederic March movie A Star is Born. Local workmen were used on the theatre that featured “plate glass and polished maple doors”, “a foyer of terrazzo”, 20,000 pounds worth of RCA sound equipment, and a “crying room” where mothers and infants could enjoy films without disturbing other patrons.
Filed under Gosford by Rob.
Not exactly Sydney but close enough and inextricably linked both now and in the past… there’s an excellent heritage walk on the Gosford Council website but it lacks a few current maps and images… so here are some excerpts with Google Maps and Streetview images added…. and remember to check out the GCC site for additional detail (including some marvellous old photos).
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
Gosford Park was dedicated on 15th January 1886. At that time the Park was a bare paddock. A rotunda for band recitals was added much later. This Park sat directly above Brisbane Water in the early days. The land immediately below the Park is all reclaimed from Brisbane Water. The practice ovals at the rear of the 1954 Gosford Public School were once all part of Brisbane Water. Georgiana Terrace marks the northernmost place Brisbane Water once reached. Around 1911, spoil from dredges was piled up on the water’s edge, to create “Waterside Park”. Later projects led to further reclamation and the building of Dane Drive. Vaughan Avenue was once named Wharf Street.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
This part of Mann Street was once comparatively busy, with a conveniently located pub and General Store waiting for travellers to and from Sydney, and a Post and Telegraph Office. Steamship travel was the fastest and most comfortable means of getting to Gosford prior to the coming of the railway in 1887. George Watt sold tickets for the Parramatta River Steam Company from his two-storey weatherboard building. Watt’s Gosford Emporium sold boots and shoes, ironmongery and crockery, groceries, drapery, meat safes and scrubbing boards amongst other things. With the railway station being built further north along Mann Street, during the 1880s, the businesses began to gravitate towards it.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
A casual look at the front of this building (which a late friend described as ” late 20th century brutalist!) would lead you might think that there was nothing historic about it at all. Walk to the northern end, and look east. You will see that the awful red brick front of the building hides a largely intact Victorian building. Along Mann Street there are some lovely old buildings hidden behind very unflattering 1950s & 60s facades.
The Post and Telegraph Office, and adjacent residence, were originally long and low single storey structures designed by James Barnet. In 1891 a second storey was added to the main Post Office. The building has had further alterations from 1908 to 1953, culminating in the building you see before you.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
looking west directly across the street is the site of the Old Gosford School of Arts. Built in 1888, the Gosford community was very proud of this building. It featured a library, reading room, large meeting room, Municipal Chambers and a hall capable of seating 250 people. Travelling theatrical companies, magicians, illusionists and a blind concert group gave concerts in the hall. Travelling picture showmen would bring their wares to the people before the establishment of permanent cinemas in town. In 1927 the School of Arts burnt down. The hall was rebuilt on the old foundations. On the northern side facing Georgiana Terrace can be seen remnants of the old painted signage for Council offices. It is now used as a teachers’ resource centre.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
The original Gosford watch-house was built in Donnison Street in 1827, near today’s Workcover building site. It was a three-roomed shingle-roofed slab timber structure that quickly became inadequate for its purpose. Around 1833 the first Gosford courthouse was added.
In 1849 the “new’ Gosford Court and Police Station was built in Mann Street. It cost 345 pounds, and consisted of a courthouse, clerk’s room, magistrate’s room, two cells, a constable’s room, and a yard. By the mid 1860s the building was in need of major repair. The northern end of the complex was extended in 1892. A brick charge room and offices were added in 1928 to the southern end. If you look closely you can see evidence of the various additions. From Georgiana Terrace you can see the original gaol cells. Over the front entrance you can still see the wrought-iron gas lamp holder. In the 1970s, police working in the old station were fed up with outdated facilities. Plans for the demolition of the building were halted, and a variety of historical and arts groups put their hands up to occupy the site. The new Gosford Police Centre was opened in June 1983. The new courthouse in Donnison Street opened in August 1987.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
Henry Helman designed the Brisbane Water County Council building that was completed in 1957. The town was very proud of the project, and it featured local sandstone fascia provided by Gosford Quarries, and many fittings and furnishings from local companies. The meeting rooms were wood panelled, and the mechanism for operating the clock tower was controlled from a bookcase shaped to reflect the design of the outer building and clock tower. The old County Council building was briefly the home of the Northern Eagles football team in the late 1990s. The Spurbest proposal for the site includes the retention of the County Council facade.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
The number and longevity of cafes in town reflect the passing trade in tourists and travellers who used to be directed through Gosford along the old Pacific Highway. PNA House stands on Jephson’s Corner. Horace Jephson was a tobacconist and hairdresser who built his store on the site in 1907. A later extension was added in 1913. Walter Buscombe was an early occupant of the site before Jephson. Fred Cohen had a drapery and grocery store next door in the early 1910s. Old photos show that these two buildings were rather lovely in their time.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
the Imperial Centre now stands on Sterland’s Corner.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
Shepherd’s Corner was where William Street meets Mann Street
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
Where the Commonwealth Bank stands today was known as Hill’s Corner. The corner was previously known as Campbell’s Corner, after the owner of shops in the 1910s. Campbell’s shops were destroyed by fire in November 1914. Campbell rebuilt on the site, and soon after sold to Hill. Hill’s Corner Chambers were notable as the first “modern” mix of shops, businesses and professional rooms, with three-way garage. Fire destroyed the building in November 1933.
Mann Street South Heritage Walk — Gosford City Council
In 1937 a new and luxurious theatre, the Regal, was opened. It was designed in the Art Deco/Moderne style, and was as good as any city cinema of the period. The opening programme was the Janet Gaynor and Frederic March movie A Star is Born. Local workmen were used on the theatre that featured “plate glass and polished maple doors”, “a foyer of terrazzo”, 20,000 pounds worth of RCA sound equipment, and a “crying room” where mothers and infants could enjoy films without disturbing other patrons.
Filed under Gosford by Rob.
Given that I think I convincingly debunked the economic and environmental wisdom of a fast train between Sydney and Melbourne (even if I do say so myself), what about the proposals for fast trains from Penrith and Gosford to Sydney?
Well these proposals are not necessarily for fast trains, but certainly faster. A fast train is one that travels above 200kmh, at least in my book. To reach that speed requires enormous torque to get it rolling, low drag, high-end power and good, strong brakes to bring it back to a stop. You also need few if any curves, easy grades, strong and smoothly jointed track and big enough centres of population to justify the investment. In Japan in the 1960s and 70s, for several reasons, no problem. However in the cases of Penrith and (especially) Gosford, big problems. Penrith to Sydney CBD may generate enough passengers if the train stops at Parramatta, and especially Strathfield, but each stop kills the average speed. With Gosford the problem of attracting passengers at premium rates is compounded by the need for truly massive tunneling. On the plus side you could stop at Hornsby or perhaps Chatswood, but again the average speed falls dramatically.
If we want a fast train to go anywhere it must have its own track. It can’t share, because sharing will slow it down, even if it gets priority. It also increases complexity and imposes risks. Existing train services will be slowed, and the track will of necessity be improved to cope with the fast train’s needs. In any event the grades and curves will need to meet fast train specifications, which existing rail cannot do. So it’s tunnel, tunnel, tunnel, new stations, new track and new trains, along with the anciliaries like maintenance areas.
You could perhaps design a big arc from Gosford to Penrith that takes in Chatswood, the CBD, Hurstville, Liverpool and Parramatta, which may offer some benefit – but the cost would be extortionate. With a finger in the air you’d say that’s 200km of track. At least half of that would cost $2billion per 10km, say $20 billion and half that price for the “easy” bits. So $30 billion. If you add Newcastle as well you could pay around $40billion for the track but at least please some more commuters. Wyong would want in and you’d have an argument about time lost in stopping but you’d flip a coin and see what happens. And remember, for that bargain price you still don’t have any trains, just the bare infrastructure.
You would have trains accelerating and then decelerating quite quickly, but the savings in time would still be substantial, even if your maintenance costs will be high. And on some sections you may have a ready market, but how ready will they be to pay premium fares? With a $40billion price tag you’d hope to get most of the existing commuter market, but even so you aren’t going to approach Japanese levels of passenger volume, especially if you price to recover cost.
And many commuters change trains (and buses), so you need convenient interconnects. Get that and the pricing wrong and commuters may as well keep driving rather than drive to the fast train station. Or just stay on the now-slightly-less-full existing 80-100kmh trains and save some money.
So why even contemplate fast trains? Because there’s a theory – and a pretty good one too – that if we can move around faster we can (a) do more work of economic value in any given time period and (b) increase our range of economic choice in terms of location, so we can work and purchase goods and services further outside of our regular “economic zone”. In simple terms we increase our range and thus increase the overall level of competition. In that way companies can source good workers from further afield, potentially lowering costs of production; and purchasers can consider a wider range of sources for many commodities and services, driving down prices. Easily said – now go and measure it.
You could also say that commuting time saved can be “spent” elsewhere, perhaps in relaxation, and that too will be an economic (and social) benefit. However we choose to look at it, we still have to determine a value for the economic and social value generated and compare it with the total economic, environmental and social cost. And then consider the opportunity cost – what could we have done with that money had we spent it elsewhere?
In terms of carbon emissions, a fast train of any sort will release carbon in the construction phase – dramatically so – and will in day-to-day operation fair badly in comparison with slower, conventional trains. You can’t accelerate a train to speed without consuming energy – and it’s going to be coming from coal-fired power-stations for the immediate future. However these faster trains will still be more efficient than thousands of individuals in their wretchedly grid-locked cars – and it would be hoped that some such cars would be taken off the roads as a consequence, or the growth in car use avoided. If that’s not achieved then we’ve done nothing for global warming, except taken a step back.
In this way the $40billion spent is just one part of the equation. In the end we may buy a less-fast train that stops at more stations but still needs its own reserved track. But let’s not imagine that the sums are small or the calculations easy.
Given that I think I convincingly debunked the economic and environmental wisdom of a fast train between Sydney and Melbourne (even if I do say so myself), what about the proposals for fast trains from Penrith and Gosford to Sydney?
Well these proposals are not necessarily for fast trains, but certainly faster. A fast train is one that travels above 200kmh, at least in my book. To reach that speed requires enormous torque to get it rolling, low drag, high-end power and good, strong brakes to bring it back to a stop. You also need few if any curves, easy grades, strong and smoothly jointed track and big enough centres of population to justify the investment. In Japan in the 1960s and 70s, for several reasons, no problem. However in the cases of Penrith and (especially) Gosford, big problems. Penrith to Sydney CBD may generate enough passengers if the train stops at Parramatta, and especially Strathfield, but each stop kills the average speed. With Gosford the problem of attracting passengers at premium rates is compounded by the need for truly massive tunneling. On the plus side you could stop at Hornsby or perhaps Chatswood, but again the average speed falls dramatically.
If we want a fast train to go anywhere it must have its own track. It can’t share, because sharing will slow it down, even if it gets priority. It also increases complexity and imposes risks. Existing train services will be slowed, and the track will of necessity be improved to cope with the fast train’s needs. In any event the grades and curves will need to meet fast train specifications, which existing rail cannot do. So it’s tunnel, tunnel, tunnel, new stations, new track and new trains, along with the anciliaries like maintenance areas.
You could perhaps design a big arc from Gosford to Penrith that takes in Chatswood, the CBD, Hurstville, Liverpool and Parramatta, which may offer some benefit – but the cost would be extortionate. With a finger in the air you’d say that’s 200km of track. At least half of that would cost $2billion per 10km, say $20 billion and half that price for the “easy” bits. So $30 billion. If you add Newcastle as well you could pay around $40billion for the track but at least please some more commuters. Wyong would want in and you’d have an argument about time lost in stopping but you’d flip a coin and see what happens. And remember, for that bargain price you still don’t have any trains, just the bare infrastructure.
You would have trains accelerating and then decelerating quite quickly, but the savings in time would still be substantial, even if your maintenance costs will be high. And on some sections you may have a ready market, but how ready will they be to pay premium fares? With a $40billion price tag you’d hope to get most of the existing commuter market, but even so you aren’t going to approach Japanese levels of passenger volume, especially if you price to recover cost.
And many commuters change trains (and buses), so you need convenient interconnects. Get that and the pricing wrong and commuters may as well keep driving rather than drive to the fast train station. Or just stay on the now-slightly-less-full existing 80-100kmh trains and save some money.
So why even contemplate fast trains? Because there’s a theory – and a pretty good one too – that if we can move around faster we can (a) do more work of economic value in any given time period and (b) increase our range of economic choice in terms of location, so we can work and purchase goods and services further outside of our regular “economic zone”. In simple terms we increase our range and thus increase the overall level of competition. In that way companies can source good workers from further afield, potentially lowering costs of production; and purchasers can consider a wider range of sources for many commodities and services, driving down prices. Easily said – now go and measure it.
You could also say that commuting time saved can be “spent” elsewhere, perhaps in relaxation, and that too will be an economic (and social) benefit. However we choose to look at it, we still have to determine a value for the economic and social value generated and compare it with the total economic, environmental and social cost. And then consider the opportunity cost – what could we have done with that money had we spent it elsewhere?
In terms of carbon emissions, a fast train of any sort will release carbon in the construction phase – dramatically so – and will in day-to-day operation fair badly in comparison with slower, conventional trains. You can’t accelerate a train to speed without consuming energy – and it’s going to be coming from coal-fired power-stations for the immediate future. However these faster trains will still be more efficient than thousands of individuals in their wretchedly grid-locked cars – and it would be hoped that some such cars would be taken off the roads as a consequence, or the growth in car use avoided. If that’s not achieved then we’ve done nothing for global warming, except taken a step back.
In this way the $40billion spent is just one part of the equation. In the end we may buy a less-fast train that stops at more stations but still needs its own reserved track. But let’s not imagine that the sums are small or the calculations easy.
How about Sydney to Gosford? It’s about 100km, depending on where you start!
It used to be that what is now called Sydney (NSW, Australia) and the Central Coast of NSW were primarily disconnected by what we now call the Hawkesbury River. The local Aboriginal people used canoes, but the colonising English preferred larger boats. As time went by some roads were hacked through the bush, but it remained a difficult land journey until recent times. A vehicle punt or 2 made the crossing easier, followed by a succession of bridges built from about the mid-1800s. One bridge carried the railway, which largely eroded the previously sea-borne passenger and freight trade. Local ports carried fewer and fewer passengers and less cargo. When the roads improved from 2 lanes to 4 or more the end was nigh. It’s now easy – if slightly time consuming (a mere 30 minute trip from the northern edge of Sydney to the Gosford end – perhaps too easy, to get from Sydney to the Central Coast.
Having not made the journey by bike (push bike, I mean) for over 10 years, I decided to ride from Brookvale to Gosford one Saturday last year. I keep promising that I’ll do it again, but haven’t. An alternative is just to get to Brooklyn and return, and I’ve done that a few times from both Sydney and Gosford (about 40km each way). Half the trip from Sydney is just awful – cars, trucks, more cars – and the rest is tree-lined, majestic, beautiful and annoyingly frequented by death-wish motorcyclists scrambling ’round corners. I really mean death-wish. The scenic, if twisty road is lined by white crosses. Each representing a fallen rider who met their match on this road. Still, each to their own – we all take our risks in different ways. Just don’t take me with you!
What fascinated me last time around was the change in the road. When the old road was bypassed by the freeway the traffic declined and local trade slumbered. Now the surviving cafes are booming, with trade literally zooming past their doors every weekend. I imagine it dies down during the week, but what a change over the last 20 years or so. Almost makes me want to open a roadside cafe… but not like the “ghost cafe”, real 50′s roadside diner built for passing trade on the old road at Brooklyn – but long since bypassed.
Try the main shops at Brooklyn for food, there’s plenty to choose from, or closer to Mooney there’s a small petrol station and cafe with a pleasant, if small park attached.
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